New Mandala

12 responses so far ↓

• 1 aiontay // Mar 4, 2008 at 11:52 am

  Great stuff. The Tai Khamti aspect is interesting. There are so many linkages that could have led to a quite different world than the one we live in. Maybe they will in the future.

• 2 Nicholas Farrelly // Mar 4, 2008 at 12:03 pm

  Thanks Aiontay,

  I agree - the relationship between Tai Khamti and Singpho (and not just in historical, religious, cultural or linguistic spheres) is a really interesting issue, and one I hope to learn more about. Sometimes one even sees mention of an “All Tai Khamti & Singpho Students’ Union”. Like elsewhere in India’s northeast, student politics in Arunachal Pradesh is a serious business. This combined union (which seems to be just a sporadic fixture on the student political scene) is indicative of other shared links and interests. Some of those links appear to go right to the heart of the economy and deep into politics of all kinds. Chowna Mein seemed very at home among “our Singpho”.

  When it comes to relations between th Tai (Khamti and others) and the Singpho, there is much to chew on indeed.

  Best wishes to all,

  Nich

• 3 jonfernquest // Mar 4, 2008 at 9:47 pm

  “…Chowna Mein…his speech ranged across topics …to the etymology of place names along the India-Burma border. The other minister, C.C. Singpho, is reading a copy of The Miao Times, the local newspaper. This informative paper is published in English and the Editor-in-Chief is a **local Singpho intellectual**.”

  “…relationship between Tai Khamti and Singpho…”

  Does anyone know the first historical references to Singpho (or related ethnonym) and “Tai Hkamti” (which I’ve never been able to relate to Tai ethnonyms during the Ming dynasty) in the area that is now the Kachin state of Burma?

  I ask because things quiet down in Chinese and Burmese sources and you don’t get references to Mohnyin-Mogaung (Burmese) or Meng Yang (Chinese) after the end of the Ming dynasty in 1644.

  http://epress.nus.edu.sg/msl/map.html
  http://epress.nus.edu.sg/msl/place/1149

• 4 aiontay // Mar 5, 2008 at 12:06 pm

  Jon,
  You may have already looked there, and it probably won’t have what you’re looking for, but Leach’s book “Political Systems of Highland Burma” does mention historical references for the Singhpo/Jinghpaw etc if I remember correctly.

• 5 jonfernquest // Mar 5, 2008 at 3:10 pm

  I seem to vaguely remember mass migrations into the “Kachin” states during the 19th century. Maybe that was in Leach’s book. I’ll check. And Mandy Sadan’s work. Thanks for the reference.

  I’ve met so many “Kachins” who refer to themselves by a more specific ethnonym and I know that Jingphaw and Kachin is one of the most linguistically diverse groups of the world. This archaeologist told me about it on the train back to Yangon from Pagan one time. I forgot his name. (His mother was Scottish and taught at Mandalay University?) Anyway there are probably just as good Chinese sources from the Qing dynasty that can be used to get a better picture of the changing ethno-political landscape of the Kachin states between 1644 and 1885 during the third Anglo-Burmese War when the “Kachins” are very visible in the accounts. Maybe Mandy Sadan has already looked at the Qing sources?

• 6 Nicholas Farrelly // Mar 5, 2008 at 3:27 pm

  Jon and Aiontay, and everyone,

  Certainly there are many different ethnonyms in use among the various “Kachin”.

  All of the categories in contemporary use have now been influenced by the schemes of ethnic demarcation introduced in China (mostly after 1949), in India (since well before independence) and in Burma (in messy and sometimes inconsistent ways). Today, as you know, the official categorisation of the “Kachin” in Burma covers 6 major “sub-groups”, sometimes called “tribes”. These include the Rawang and Lisu. All of these categorisations seem to be open to continued contestation. For example, there are reportedly some Naga nationalists on the Indian side of the border who see all “Singpho” as a part of the “Naga” family. Is this going too far?

  The various uses of “Jinghpaw Wunpawng” (which has become an umbrella term within the Kachin state) is something that Mandy Sadan has written a great deal about. This is the term for the mass of different groups that has been widely used in the Kachin state (and I have even seen it used in areas of south-western China) in recent times.

  As for the longer-term evolution of the terminology, I’m not really sure. But these are all good questions. I have heard it claimed that the Singpho (under that name?) have been in northeast India since before the Ahom kings arrived. This takes it back a whole other step.

  Very keen to continue this conversation.

  Best wishes to all,

  Nich

• 7 aiontay // Mar 6, 2008 at 11:26 am

  Given that there are numerous Jinghpaw dialect, like Gauri for example, and that other Kachin tribes like the Maru, Lashi, Atsi, and Rawang have dialects (especially the Rawang, who I think have something like 75-100 dialects), there as both of you, Nicholas and Jon, note there’s a lot of ethnonyms out there. The Lisu also are interesting since not all of them consider themselves Kachin. However, I think the Kachins are in competition for linguistic diversity with the Chins and Nagas; they’ve all got plenty of diversity.

  While there was quite a bit of migration among the Kachins during the 19th and continuing through to the 20th century (if I’m not mistaken the Jinghpaw in the Kengtung area migrated in the 20th century), there were migrations before that date. There was an important migration of Jinghpaws from the Putao region to the Northern Shan States 7 generations ago, and assuming that the Jinghpaw “generation” is roughly equivalent to the biblical “generation” of about 40 years, that would place the migration around 280 years ago. It is interesting that it is claimed the Singpho were there before the Ahom, since I have heard Kachins say the Tai, and Khmer for that matter, proceeded them in some locations. Maybe the Flat Mountain was closer to NE India.

  As for the Naga claiming the Singpho in thIR family, that isn’t going too far compared to some of the claims I’ve heard. Several years ago, a Kachin and Wa told me a migration story that claims the Kachin, Wa, and Chin are brothers. Just last Fall, a Chin told me the identical story, without the Wa aspect. I’ve also heard, and read, of Kachin claims of kinship with the Gurhkas. While the Tai people aren’t exactly in the brotherhood, Shan from the Shan-majority areas of the Kachin State were in the KIA/KIO, as is noted in Bertil Lintner’s book “Land of Jade”.

  A few years ago I was out visiting some of my friends at one of the Yuchi aka Euchee ceremonial grounds. We got into a discussion about the fact that although the Yuchis are a distinct tribe, politically they are part of the Muscogee Creek Nation. The reason for this is that several centuries ago, the Yuchis joined the then Muscogee Confederacy. As one of the Yuchis noted, it wasn’t a confederacy of mutual interests, it was a confederacy of mutual enemies. Maybe the Nagas define “family” in a similar way.

• 8 jonfernquest // Mar 6, 2008 at 5:10 pm

  Thank you Nicholas and aiontay for all that info. I looked through Leach’s Political Systems of Highland Burma as suggested and found some interesting tidbits:

  1. “In the later part of the 18th century, in the course of somewhat indecisive wars between Burma and China, the various Shan principalities of the Upper Irrwaddy area (Mogaung, Mohnyin, Waingmaw, Bhamo) appear to have sided with the Chinese and, as a consequence, suffered destruction at the hands of the Burmese armies (footnote # 5: See Imbault-Huart (1878), where Meng K’ong = Mogaung, Meng Yang = Mohnyin) (Leach, page 34)

  2. “The majority of existing books about Kachins contain a categorical assertion that the Kachins, as a people, migrated into the Kachin Hills area in the fairly recent past from Tibet or even further afield. There is no evidence for such statements.” (Leach, page 230) [maybe "late recorded migrations" does not mean "Kachins were not there already to begin with"]

  [Comment: I find this sort of issue fascinating because the ethnic diversity of Yunnan was incredible in the 13th century when the Mongols arrived on the scene as attested to in a paper by Christian Daniels (see below), even Mon-Khmer speaking groups.

  The arrival of the Mongols in the 13th century and then displacement by the Ming around 1383 marks the real beginning of written history for Yunnan as well in Burma and Tai states like Chiang Mai, after that the written record creates an almost obsessive focus on low land rice cultivating cultures (Burmese, Tai, Chinese). References to upland dwellers only seeming to occur when there was a "rebellion".

  Anyway, research on Tibeto-Burman speaking upland dwelling ethnic groups during the early Qing (1644-1800) might have more sources and evidence. I seem to remember Perdue who researches the northern frontiers of the Qing writing a paper on this period at a recent Singapore conference, paper unpublished as far as I know.]

  References

  Daniels, Christian (2001). “The Formation of Tai Polities Between the 13th and 16th Centuries; The Role of Technological Transfer,” Memoirs of the Research Department of The Toyo Bunko, No.58, pp. 51-98

  Imbault-Huart, M.C. 1878. Histoire de la conquete de la Birmanie par les Chinoise sous le regne de Tc’ienn Long (Khien Long) (trans. from the Chinese), (reprinted from Journal Asiatique)

• 9 sondita // Apr 28, 2008 at 10:42 am

  Hi Nicholas,

  My name is Sondita Mein and i am related to Chowna Mein. I was surprised and delighted to discover that someone from ANU would have gone to my part of the world and taken these beautiful photographs! If you are doing some research on the Tai Khamti and the Singphos, i could get in touch with my people and we would love to help you in any way that we can :O) It has been a long standing dream of mine to eventually trace the paths taken by my ancestors and understand our migration patterns and hopefully trace our ancestral roots beyond Thailand. I am just a layman so i suppose i am not explaining myself very well in anthropological terms. But if i can be of any help to you with your work, please let me know.

  Warm regards,
  Sondita Mein

• 10 Nicholas Farrelly // Apr 29, 2008 at 1:33 am

  Thanks Sondita,

  Great to hear from you. I have your e-mail address and will be in touch.

  Thanks for stopping by.

  Best wishes,

  Nicholas

• 11 FireFox // May 8, 2008 at 4:20 am

  i don’t know regarding what to say…but as above it’s mentioned about the two govt. minister in Singpho Festival (shaphawn young manau poi ) ,the Singpho cheif and the most senior singpho. I see lot’s of error in the way you identify person. Any way, here we go…..

  “After dancing, C.C. Singpho is interviewed at some considerable length by an Assamese journalist”.

  I feel like laughing out loud imagining what the journalist might have asked him … about singpho or the festival ?

  Don’t get fool. He ain’t a real sinpho. Just talk with him you can make it out by his way of speech. He is a fake Singpho. Just using Singpho identification. It’s said he’s originally from Assam, place called Diphu.And orginally he belong to tribe called ‘Shiyam’.( a tribe similar to assamese)

  Every Singpho has his/her own Identity. A identity by which one singpho can track his relation with any singpho/jingpahw/jingpo. Ask him for his and see how reddish his face will be.

  Recently, he had added a singpho surname called “Daiffa” to erase his identity deeply. To get more proof search for real singpho with surname “daifa”, asked for his singpho identification and try comparing.I guess he will not even be able to reply a simple answer.

  [ by identification i mean every real singpho will know their ancestors names by which singpho can easily identify their own blood
  though they have never met before eg. singpho from india and jingpahw from myanmar (kachin) or else any where ]

• 12 javon samon // May 24, 2008 at 9:35 pm

  i would like to make you clear that we singpho are never a part of Naga group. its our universal belief that make them think so. Acc. to our belief we are son of our great great grandfather ie SHAPAWNG YOUNG and he has got five brother among them are britishers as the eldest then chinese,and the naga are the immediate elder brother of him.

  so i think this will be sufficient to refute the claims made by naga.

  About the of singpho people’s i would like to say that there are many singpho who have been converted to assamese after adopting “NAAM DHARAM” cult who have been staying with assamese people after having war with them in the yesteryear but many of are coming back to their own community after our people started celebrating shapawng festival and this is the greatness of this festival. where the zig-zag logo in the ”MANAU SHADUNG” indicates wherever you are ”YOU ARE YOU WILL COME BACK AGAIN” . Thats all

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