New Mandala

28 responses so far ↓

• 1 Chennault // Feb 25, 2008 at 1:25 am

  Interesting stuff. You are indeed privileged to have travelled through this area that few visit.

  http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?p=20030#post20030

  The above post has borrowed just one of your pictures, and quoted a little of your text, with a link to your blog post above indicating that your entire article is worth checking out. Hopefully you won’t mind too much, because there are a number of interesting newspaper article quotes that are highly relevant. There is also a map scan to compare with your Stilwell Park poster board.

• 2 jonfernquest // Feb 26, 2008 at 3:04 pm

  Thanks. Vicarious tourism is fun and a lot more easy and comfortable than the real thing.

  “It was designed to re-supply troops fighting the Japanese in China. ”

  And the book that brings it all alive is Sir Christopher Bayly and Tim Harper’s magisterial Forgotten Armies. The Fall of British Asia 1941-45 with Dr Tim Harper (2004) .

• 3 Nicholas Farrelly // Feb 27, 2008 at 3:21 pm

  Chennault,

  Of course, that is no problem at all - thanks for asking!

  Thanks Jon,

  I will chase up Forgotten Armies. It sounds like a great read.

  All best wishes,

  Nich

• 4 Chennault // Feb 27, 2008 at 3:44 pm

  Can anyone pinpoint Ledo? I can’t find it on any map. I’ve seen several maps with roads marked as ‘Ledo’ or ‘Stilwell Road’, but never Ledo itself.

• 5 Nicholas Farrelly // Feb 27, 2008 at 4:09 pm

  Hi Chennault,

  Ledo is just on the Assam side of the border between Arunachal Pradesh and Assam. A map (but without much detail) is available here.

  This map of Tinsukia district gives a more detailed picture of how everything fits together, and places Ledo quite precisely compared to other available sources.

  Today Ledo is a relatively small town. Tinsukia is, on the other hand, a really substantial trading and industrial centre.

  As an aside, there is a big hard-left political presence in those parts. The “hammer and sickle” are to be seen painted on many walls in the towns of upper Assam.

  All best wishes,

  Nich

• 6 Chennault // Feb 27, 2008 at 4:27 pm

  Slightly East of Magherita, but not as far as the Likhapani railway on this war-derived map and zoomed inset:

  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Allied_lines_of_communication_in_Southeast_Asia%2C_1942-43.jpg

• 7 Chennault // Feb 27, 2008 at 4:31 pm

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ledo_Road

• 8 Chennault // Feb 27, 2008 at 5:03 pm

  From your map it looks like the railhead is now Digboi. Or Dingboi on some maps. There is coal mining in these hills right? Hence the hard-left presence. Having lived in mining towns, I definitely sympathise - even if I may not always vote that way myself.

• 9 Nicholas Farrelly // Feb 27, 2008 at 5:13 pm

  Yes, Chennault,

  There is coal mining in those there hills. It is a huge industry, and is, no pun intended, the bedrock of some township economies. Digboi is also an integral part of India’a oil industry and Assam Oil has been there since colonial times.

  Even though it is not marked on that map, I think that the railway spur out to Ledo is still used. The railway station in Tinsukia is a big one and I think that the trains still run out to Ledo. That said, rail services in upper Assam (perhaps apart from the coal transport) have a mixed reputation these days. Not sure how regular any services would be.

  Best wishes to all,

  Nich

• 10 sangos // Apr 17, 2008 at 10:43 pm

  Assam native me(pun intended)..sorry if I dug this up late but if you have been blessed enough to travel by the Indian Railways..The “Rajdhani Express” starting New Delhi travels twice a week till Dibrugarh beyond Tinsukia. Overnight trains go upto Ledo daily from Guwahati - capital of Assam…you are right probably nothing much has changed about this part from WW2..if Gen Stilwell were to walk into Ledo today he might still recognise it! Hopefully that would change for the better if Uncle Joe’s old road is operational again and some worthwhile trade flows through it…Cheers!

• 11 Michael Geary // Jun 10, 2008 at 9:27 pm

  Hello all

  My name in Michael Geary and i am planning a trip overland from London to Singapore. I would particularly like to talk in detail with Nicholas Farrelly.

  We have so far 4 landrovers 1 of which is a total replica used in the 1955 trip. Several studants are coming on the trip from Cambridge university and with this they bring many sponsers and grants.

  One major thing we want to know is……

  There -is- a checkpoint at Pansaung, just down the road from Ledo in Changlang District in Arunachal Pradesh, but it is not open to foreigners. We need to convince the authorities in Myanmar to give us a one time special permit to cross at Pansaung. Do you know of any one particular government official in Yangon that you need to correspond with or how to go about this?

  The Commerce Minister Jairam Ramesh in New Delhi is obviously talking with the people in Myanmar who are responsible for the Ledo Road area. We wondered if he could help, once he heard about our convoy ?

  When corresponding with officials in Myanmar, we think it would probably be a good idea to suggest that we understand and expect that we will have an escort as far as the tiger reserve in the Hukaung Valley or something.

  Do you think we stand any chance

  regards michael geary email michaelgeary2003@yahoo.co.uk

  thanks

• 12 Nicholas Farrelly // Jun 10, 2008 at 10:30 pm

  Thanks Michael,

  I have sent you a note by e-mail with some thoughts on your plans. For the record, it sounds like an epic trip!

  Best wishes,

  Nich

• 13 sangos // Jun 11, 2008 at 4:59 am

  Mike

  Please check my email as well

  Sanj

• 14 Mandy Sadan // Jun 12, 2008 at 4:20 pm

  Dear Michael

  I will also send you an email as I probably have more recent experience of both legal and illegal travel in relation to these borders on both the China and India side than most at the moment. But, for the more general record (as Nic has it) - this may be an ‘epic trip’ but if you are seriously planning to negotiate having a Myanmar government military escort through this region ‘up to Hukawng’, perhaps you could ask them for their side of the story on the increasing numbers of sexual abuses against local women committed by their soldiers along this road. I have seen very recent documentation of this and it is something I will never forget as long as I live - and thus feel compelled to mention in this context as it is still haunting me. This road through to Hukawng is becoming netorious for these kinds of events, and much more besides. ‘Grants’ ’sponsors’ and a replica jeep don’t necessarily mean you should project your own adventurism on this space for the thrill of it. I hope you are all preparing yourselves properly. I doubt if anything will come of it (and wish you good luck with managing the outfall if it does).

  Mandy

• 15 Michael Geary // Jun 13, 2008 at 1:05 am

  Thank you for all these fanastic emails as for the military escourt. If we do manage to gain permission to enter Myanmar at Pangsau Pass and are allowed to use the ledo road with out escourt this would be great but if we end up having an escourt i dont think it would be a good idea to upset any member of the escourt by asking about these sexuall assults as it could ruin our trip. We may even risk being shot.

• 16 Nicholas Farrelly // Jun 13, 2008 at 3:23 am

  Michael,

  Before you jump to any more conclusions about what might “ruin [y]our trip”, I will take this opportunity to reinforce Mandy’s helpful comments. This time it is, quite properly, for the record and I hope that other potential expeditioners out there also find it useful.

  In fact, the sexual abuses that Mandy highlights for your benefit are just the tip of the iceberg. She has politely ignored the other aspects of local history (that she knows so well) that make your proposed route difficult in all sorts of ways. And right now, of all times, there is much to commend an alternative.

  To a different expedition that asked for my advice on the “Burma problem” I suggested that attempting to drive from India to Singapore via Nepal, China, Laos, Thailand and Malaysia, may, at the end of the day, be the best (but by no means an easy) option. This would mean never even seeing Ledo, let alone driving the Ledo Road. [Of course, there is no reason to expect that the Chinese would allow such an expedition to hop freely around Tibet right now or at anytime in the next couple of years.] But it may still, from where I sit, end up cheaper, easier, safer, and more likely to succeed than an attempt to get permission to drive through Burma (although, as you know, a few have done it in the past…it doesn’t follow that it will be doable in future). As I said in my e-mail, there is a strong chance that even with a “permit” any expedition could be abruptly turned around at the Indo-Burmese frontier, or anywhere else in this region for that matter. Frankly, nothing would be certain until you made it to Thailand.

  To get some more perspective on why this is one of the most problematic sections of road for any round-the-world or trans-Asia expedition the account in Who needs a road? The story of the longest and last motor journey around the world (which I assume you are familiar with) is certainly worth re-reading. For those who haven’t read it, the outline is that they get stranded in Bangladesh in, as I recall, 1965 during a war and end up having to ship their expedition to Singapore. They then drive up through Malaysia to northern Thailand…they never drive in Burma, it is the missing piece of their global puzzle. And any expedition going that way would have to be prepared for some analogous disruption(s).

  And as I have just discovered, right now one of the leaders of that team, Harold Stephens, is doing his own Trans-Asia Expedition. This is over 40 years since he first did such a huge road journey. Awesome. But he is not taking his group to Burma and, if you look closely, it is clear that he is doing a huge circle acround the continent and going (almost) everywhere but Burma. His team will ship their vehicles from Chittagong (in eastern Bangladesh) to Singapore…and then drive back to Bangkok. Still epic - absolutely!

  So Mandy’s right (again) - I hope you are preparing yourselves well.

  For a taste of life along the Ledo Road in the present day I would start with the excellent daily coverage by the Kachin News Group. I would, if I was you, try to read everything they have ever put up on their site - it is the best source of news on the Ledo Road and surrounds. And then I would ask people (such as Mandy) who know these areas well why there are problems with taking adventure to this particular road on the romantic route from London to Singapore.

  Their answers may surprise you.

  Best wishes to all,

  Nich

• 17 Michael Geary // Jun 13, 2008 at 3:48 am

  I now have a good contact in Rangoon who works for the burmese government and who has traveled on some of the ledo road. She is going to try to talk to certian people from the government and try to find out what she can for me.

  If we get permission we plan to meet her at Pangsau pass and travel with her down to rangoon where we will have a few days rest.

  There is a check point at Pangsau pass near the ledo road, its just not an official one, what we need is a one time permit what would allow us to pass there. Im hoping the Indian commerce minsiter Jairam Ramesh will be able to help us here because he is the one trying as had as he can to re open the ledo road.

  We are ging to the forign office to ask to be put in contact with him or one of his officials.

  regards michael geary

• 18 Michael Geary // Jun 13, 2008 at 3:50 am

  last trip through burma by landrover was last year by a french couple. i am waiting for a reply email from these and the year before the drive around the world team drove through it too.

  http://www.drivearoundtheworld.com

  click burma

• 19 Nicholas Farrelly // Jun 13, 2008 at 4:08 am

  Michael,

  You’re right - the trip across the Indo-Burmese frontier you are proposing has been done more than a few times. There are precedents. For example, just off the top of my head, back in 2006 there was even something called the Indo-Burmese Car Rally sponsored by both country’s militaries. They took the more southerly route, in a convoy of 14 or so vehicles, via Moreh. The Indian Defence Minister flagged them off in New Delhi. They eventually made it to Yangon and, along their journey, they sought to honour the many Indian and Burmese war dead who fell during the Second World War.

  When you do make it down the Ledo Road I hope you will find the time to put together a short report about it for New Mandala. We await it with anticipation…

  Good luck,

  Nich

  P.S. Any New Mandala readers following this discussion and still wanting more will find this thread over at the Lonely Planet Thorn Tree rewards a visit.

• 20 Mandy Sadan // Jun 13, 2008 at 11:37 pm

  “[If we] are allowed to use the ledo road with out escourt this would be great but if we end up having an escourt i dont think it would be a good idea to upset any member of the escourt by asking about these sexuall assults as it could ruin our trip. We may even risk being shot.”

  In my private email to you, Michael, I offered to meet with you and to give you some advice and possible contacts. I now withdraw that offer. Probably you don’t care about that that - I assure you I care even less. I expect also that most other people will now have a clearer idea of how trivial your interests in and knowledge about this area are as well. Good luck. Enjoy your holiday.

• 21 Michael Geary // Jun 16, 2008 at 10:45 pm

  Firstly i would like to say a very big SORRY to mandy.

  Its very had to understand what, the situation in nothern myanmar is like with out seeing if for my self. You hear about the killings and rapes but as you says and im sure your right, thats the tip of the ice burg.

  So just for you, if we get out pass i will put a small report containging interviews with locals together just for you. Its my way of appoligizing.

  Lets hope the generals dont find out i am filming as already we have been told if we intend to take photographs we may have to pay for permission.

• 22 RegentsPark // Jun 17, 2008 at 12:27 am

  I haven’t heard of anyone using the Ledo Road for crossing into Burma from India. I know of at least two groups that have crossed at Moreh/Tamu but none along the Stilwell Road. I went as far as the Burma border (Nampong?) when I was a child and my recollection was that there was no real road on the other side. Even if it is motorable now, it is unlikely to be all-weather and it is unlikely that the junta will let you see it.

  Also, recent reports, as Mandy has indirectly pointed out, point to a guerilla war going on in the Kachin States between the Nagas (who are not recognized by the Burmese junta as an independent ethnic group) and the Burmese military along with stuff that is pretty much up there in the territory of war crimes. I seriously doubt that the Burmese junta will let anyone travel, even under escort, in that part of the world. Try Moreh/Tamu instead.

• 23 Grasshopper // Jun 17, 2008 at 1:46 am

  Michael, sounds like you’re taking Little Britain to Singapore..

  Ernest Activist: “They’re raping and pillaging”,
  “Yeah I know”…
  EA: “err..”
  “I mean I gotta see it for myself, am an empiricist after all - it’s the British way” EA: “yes, I suppose you want to film the raping and pillaging and sell it to the world service?”
  “I’ll do it for a kipper and chips!, it’s the British way tarrah!”

  Also, I’d be extremely interested to see these local interviews you film.

  “Oi you there, … yeah you… you want me to take your photo of you?”
  Local: “…”
  “I’ll do it for free you silly local, bet you’ve never even tasted chips or a fine lager”
  L: “…”
  “Here you are, got an email address? Oh yeah! Hah, email out here, Im havin’ a larf”
  L: * starts to walk away*
  “Oi where’dju think your goin’ then? You’re me guide, now where can I put my new road for me four-wheel drives - don’t want much dirt on them y’see, can’t have a Land Rover that looks like it’s been used, will halve the re-sale value”
  L: *runs*
  ” Typical, can’t appreciate a good bit o’ culture”

• 24 Michael Geary // Jun 17, 2008 at 2:02 am

  Hi, the whole piont of our trip is to use as much of the original route that the ‘first overland far eastern expedition’ crew used in 1955. Hence the need to use the Ledo Road.

  My contact in Myanmar who works for the embassey has traveled the road from Pangsau to Bhamo by 4×4 and assures me as long as we travel it in march we will make it.

  Once we have spoken to the Indian Minister of Commerce Jairam Ramesh, the man talking to myanmar officials about re opening the road, and trying his dammed hardest, Then we will know where we stand because by having him backing us we stand as gooder chance as any.

  This road is due to be re-opened by 2010 anyway but we want to travel it while an adventure can still be had.

  michael

• 25 Michael Geary // Jun 17, 2008 at 2:22 am

  Nobody like critisism we are doing our best. We have alot to plan, its no just myanmar thats got its problems.

  as for email we have satelite. and phone and GPS.

  At least we are trying,

  This is all new to me im only the mechanic

• 26 Michael Geary // Jun 17, 2008 at 2:30 am

  My contact in yangon informs me, after asking that the Kachin people are very friendly but very little means alot the them as they dont have much.

  Apparently they are more than happey to talk to forigners interested in thier stories. They want the western would to know.

  She also tells me we are to be careful as we may be escourted back out of the country if caught.

  She recomends talking to the locals about the corruption and the junta whilst trading on lake Inle.

• 27 Swedes love Thailand…and Australia in second place // Jun 23, 2008 at 5:17 am

  [...] So, whatever the mixed messages tell us - where does this leave Thailand’s tourism sector?  Of all the countries where I have ever lived or visited it is the one that has the most obvious links to the global tourist economy (although, as an aside, the UK must be right up there, too).  Does this make it particularly vulnerable?  And, it goes without saying, very few of Thailand’s tourists currently come overland.  [...]

• 28 Nicholas Farrelly // Aug 8, 2008 at 9:44 am

  Regular New Mandala readers (or those who just stumble upon this thread) may want to pursue this story before they head off for adventures on the Ledo Road.

  Best wishes to all,

  Nich

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