New Mandala

25 responses so far ↓

• 1 Sidh S. // Sep 21, 2007 at 3:10 pm

  I can’t seem to post on the ‘Interview with Paul Handey’ site anymore. My apology goes to Srithanonchai as a misunderstanding of my previous comment may have caused unnecessary discomfort. I have written a more detailed explanation and tried posting 3-4 times last night and this morning. If it is not on you can contact me at zydh@hotmail.com.

  Lleij Samuel Schwartz, you’ve picked on a Srithanonchai’s misunderstanding and chose to brand me as ‘racist’. That is up to you but my conscience is clear here.

  My position is to mitigate what I see is the negative repurcussions of dualistic thinking so I don’t really see the problem of, to take your example of Siam being uncolonized but yet join the postcolonial non-aligned movement. It is never that simple and Siam has ’self-colonized’ herself and took on the new name of ‘Thailand’.

  It should also be quite obvious to you that I am also thinking on a ‘Western’ mode. We all are and we are all accountable for the problems of the world today…

• 2 Thai Chat // Sep 21, 2007 at 5:11 pm

  Long life to youtube !

• 3 Lleij Samuel Schwartz // Sep 21, 2007 at 7:17 pm

  Re: Sidh> I didn’t call you a racist for the reasons Srithanonchai did. I realized you weren’t making a direct comparison between the Holocaust and the so-called “War on Terror”; however, placing them side-by-side, as you did in your previous argument, does have a rhetorical effect of linking them together (which reveals a small, but profound, insight into your subconscious thinking concerning the subject). Nevertheless, I’m not sure what America’s history of capitulation, dhimmitude, and ongoing transference of her wealth via petrodollars, the largest such transference of wealth in history, to the Muslim world has to do with the Holocaust anyway. I mean, the Jews should have been so lucky!

  I believe you are a racist because you indulge in that old, tired canard that there are “two” minds, the “Western” one (i.e. White European Male) and the “Eastern” one (i.e. everyone else). The “Western/White” mind, you argue, is unnatural and the cause of everything bad in the world; as if the genocides committed by Genghis Khan, the Ottoman Empire, and the Burundian Tutsis all stemmed from a so-called Western philosophy of Aristolean logic and dualism.

  You contrast this to a nebulously defined “Eastern” thought, which you argue is inherently superior and peaceful, which why the both the Chinese and Japanese have never committed wartime atrocities during their long and glorious histories. (That’s sarcasm, in case you were wondering.)

  The point is, “West” and “East” are nonsense concepts. Neither Europe, Africa, nor Asia evolved in isolation. Their cultures and philosophies have always been interwinded. Thanks to the Silk Road, we hear of Buddhist monks coexisting side-by-side with Druids in 2nd century Britian . (Read up on St. Origen, if you don’t believe me.) Indeed, the Buddha himself was a product of a long history of pagan Indo-European thought, that is “Western” thought by your definition.

  “East” and “West” and their “never the twain shall [meeting]” only exist to you due to your ignorance of both “Western” and “Eastern” philosophy. Have you ever read Phyrro? Diogenes? The Abhidharma?
  or even Lao Tsu’s thoughts on property rights?

  I do agree with you that “we are all accountable for the problems of the world today,” so let’s not compound the problem by spouting off fashionable post-modern mumbo-jumbo to obfuscate our own prejudices, shall we?

• 4 Sidh S. // Sep 21, 2007 at 8:18 pm

  Lleij Samuel Schwartz, you are probably reading too much into my comments and have been taking things way too far! Why all the anger? Why the emotion? The accusations? Relax - if you are in Melbourne, we should have a beer and talk in good spirits (unless you are uncomfortable hanging around with a “racist”, “ignorant”, “คนผู้ฝรั่งจ๋า” Thai that is).

  I agree with you - if you just read my previous comment:
  “My position is to mitigate what I see is the negative repurcussions of dualistic thinking …” East-West, like are merely constructs of the mind - and I must admit that I am totally comfortable with my two mindsets of “animist-Buddhist” and “Western enlightened” (maybe you are accusing me of being racist against myself!)

  Unfortunately, I find very few people think along those lines and I felt it necessary to clarify the ‘West’ for many here who views the Thai monarchy negatively and so conveniently points to the Thai monarchy for all democracy’s ills. I find such unempathic views culturally chauvinistic and unhelpful. I feel we should move on and bring in the so many other colorful figures that peppers Thai political history post 1932 and give them their due treatment. Give the evolving social groups a more detailed treatment. This is a great blog and it would be unfortunate if it devolves into another anti-monarchist site.

• 5 Lleij Samuel Schwartz // Sep 21, 2007 at 10:22 pm

  re: Sidh> I don’t see any negative emotions in my comments to you, but if you read that into them, that’s your prerogative.

  You see, unlike you, I live in Bangkok, and thusly, do not have the luxury to comment on these events from a distance. What you are theorizing and arguing about as an intellectual game, I have to suffer the consequences for in my everyday life.

  I am glad that we can agree that East-West, and other sundry things, are constructs of the mind. But if so, why are you comfortable having “two” mindsets? Where I come from, we call that schizophrenia. I think it would be better into integrate the aspects of your mind into one working whole, without dissonance and without conflict. I mean, that is the goal of Buddhism.

  I agree with you that it’s simplistic and convenient to blame the monarchy for all of democracy’s ills. Just as it’s simplistic and convenient to blame the West/America/et al. for all of Thailand’s ills, as you do.

  Also, I do enthusiastically agree with you that Plaek, Sarit, and Pridi should receive their due by history as well. But, therein lies the rub for a pious devaracha-worshiping animist, like yourself. How can one criticize a person invested with executive power over the Senatus Populusque Thailandensis by a living demi-god and not have that criticism be a reflection upon the deity himself? If the Pope is considered infallible when speaking ex cathedra, how much more so the avatar of Narayana?

• 6 Restorationist // Sep 22, 2007 at 4:43 am

  The second video seems to add weight to the rumours that Prem and the crown prince are facing each other, daggers drawn. The link to the birthday video of the prince’s wife must have been leaked from within to (further) damage the prince, and this video would seem to provide some confirmation of that.

• 7 nganadeeleg // Sep 22, 2007 at 9:26 am

  “…this video would seem to provide some confirmation of that.”

  Neither video provides confirmation of anything!
  (except maybe the desperation of some Thaksin supporters)

• 8 col. jeru // Sep 22, 2007 at 12:08 pm

  All the malicious rumors and videos, including the birthday video of the CP’s wife, came out at about the same time of Thaksin Shinawatra disgraceful ouster . . .

  It is the common belief that the source of the anti-monarchy rumours and malicious videos was Thaksin Shinawatra.

• 9 Andrew Walker // Sep 22, 2007 at 2:07 pm

  Col JeruVichai: do you think Thaksin made the birthday video?

• 10 Andrew Walker // Sep 22, 2007 at 2:08 pm

  From the Bangkok Post:

  DSI seeks to block YouTube videos

  Department of Special Investigation under the Justice Ministry is seeking a court order to block clips recently posted on video-sharing website YouTube that accuse Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda of masterminding the Sept 19 coup. “In the couple of days, we will seek a court order to block those links deemed to cause public confusion and threaten national security,” head of the unit Yanaphon Youngyuen said. “While awaiting the court order, we are seeking cooperation from internet service providers to block those links.” There are two parts of the postings, entitled The Crisis of Siam I and II. They were posted by iunknown79. The first part of the clips, posted six days ago, have been viewed by 6,469 people while the second part, posted two days ago, have been viewed by 2,498 as of 4.45pm of Friday. The first part runs 10.45 minutes while the second runs 6.06 minutes. Such allegations against Prem, now Privy Council chief, have been made by supporters of ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra during demonstrations and denied repeatedly by the generals and the government they appointed. “Pa has been through such allegations many times and everyone knows what the truth is,” Prem’s spokesman, Vice Admiral Prajun Tampratheep, said of the 87-year-old former leader. YouTube had been blocked for five months by the government and the ban was lifted in August after its owner Google agreed to block clips deemed offensive to His Majesty the King.

• 11 Srithanonchai // Sep 22, 2007 at 2:36 pm

  “I mean, that is the goal of Buddhism.” > If this is the case, it needs to update itself by reading textbooks on social psychology.

• 12 Grasshopper // Sep 22, 2007 at 9:24 pm

  I am glad that we can agree that East-West, and other sundry things, are constructs of the mind. But if so, why are you comfortable having “two” mindsets? Where I come from, we call that schizophrenia. I think it would be better into integrate the aspects of your mind into one working whole, without dissonance and without conflict. I mean, that is the goal of Buddhism.

  I’m inspired to listen to Enya and drink Chai tea in floral pajama. Thankyou for enlightening me, dharma master! Ohm!

• 13 Lleij Samuel Schwartz // Sep 22, 2007 at 11:53 pm

  Re: Srithanonchai>

  ““I mean, that is the goal of Buddhism.” > If this is the case, it needs to update itself by reading textbooks on social psychology.”

  I’m intrigued. Tell me more. I’m always interested about where Buddhism and the mind sciences agree and where they don’t.

  Re: Grasshopper>
  I’m always glad when I inspire someone to adopt my evening ritual of relaxing music, comfortable clothing, and a mug of piping hot tea.

  I bow to the Budda within you. Nemaste!

• 14 Vichai N // Sep 22, 2007 at 11:56 pm

  Andrew (#9) asks whether I believe vindictive Thaksin was capable of stooping so low purvey malicious anti-monarchy videos?

  I believe Thaksin Shinawatra was capable of stooping much lower Andrew Walker.

• 15 Restorationist // Sep 24, 2007 at 2:09 am

  Vichai. You did not answer Andrew’s question. Read it again.

• 16 Republican // Sep 24, 2007 at 3:15 am

  A friend had an interesting theory on the videos. There is little doubt that they were produced by Thai Rak Thai or its supporters. The production is quite professional and the message is almost the same as that of the PTV-Thai Rak Thai-organized demonstrations a few months ago at Sanam Luang which ended with the march on Prem’s house: blame everything on Prem while absolving the monarchy from any responsibility. Another interesting aspect is that the videos were released onto YouTube not long after the ICT lifted its ban on the site. It’s kind of like saying, “we’re back”. Even if they ban these latest videos it is pretty likely that new ones would appear soon enough, if not on YouTube and in this form then somewhere else on the web in the same or other forms. Also, it’s quite easy for people to save the clips and circulate them themselves. It’s virtually impossible to ban this kind of stuff.

  To interpret the video we have to consider the current political situation. You would have to think that Thai Rak Thai is winning the propaganda war right now. Things are going pretty terribly for the government and the junta. Politically Thai Rak Thai are looking good. The Democrats and Chat Thai will be branded as the parties that supported the dictatorship. Phalang Prachachon has a good chance of being the largest party in parliament after the next election, unless the military carries out some crackdown on the party or there is a blatant attempt to rig the elections, both of which are risky strategies. Samak has already publicly promised that if Phalang Prachachon wins government they will issue an amnesty for the 111 executives of Thai Rak Thai that were banned from politics by the Constitutional Tribunal. Then, perhaps a dissolution of parliament could be engineered, followed by new elections in which the Thai Rak Thai politicians could contest – under whatever name – with a promise to abrogate “the Dictators’ Constitution” and return to the “Peoples’ Constitution” of 1997. Presumably Thai Rak Thai would win again, and we would be back to the situation before the coup. Once Phalang Prachachon-Thai Rak Thai was in power a purge of the royalists, especially in the military, would then take place. Also, one would think that they would crack down on the Privy Council. Prem would have to go. Another factor in Thai Rak Thai’s favour is the international image of the government and the junta, which is at its lowest ebb and is getting worse. Worst of all for them, the monarchy’s role in the coup, and its stance vis-à-vis democracy in Thailand is becoming the object of increasing international media attention, which will have an effect on the monarchy’s domestic image. This was a key theme of the YouTube videos. If the military and the royalists were to intervene again in some way the international response would be far stronger than the mild reprimand last September. Thaksin, on the other hand, is projecting the image of a true democrat and neo-liberal globalizer – exactly what the international community wants – while at the same time demonstrating to his supporters at hom his nationalism, willingness to compromise and loyalty to the throne.

  So things are very bad now for the coup plotters and the monarchy. Thus the videos can be seen as offering a deal to the Palace: you can take the easy way out and let Prem and the junta and the other coup plotters be the fall guys for everything that has happened, and let us back. Or, we have the power to make things very difficult for you, not least by publicly implicating you in the coup on the Internet and showing to the world that you are the real obstacle to democracy in Thailand.

• 17 Restorationist // Sep 24, 2007 at 5:55 am

  Like Republican, I agree that Thaksin supporters probably produced the videos. My question though is how much of a battle is going on inside the palace? Prem must be copping some flak through all of this. One can imagine that the crown prince would want to blame someone for the leaking of what is essentially a family video. Is he blaming Prem? Does this mean that there could be an alliance between the prince and some Thaksin people? We all know the earlier rumours about the prince, Thaksin and the king. So throw all that into the political mix, and the palace must be experiencing a degree of concern.

• 18 Vichai N // Sep 24, 2007 at 12:48 pm

  Restorationist I already answered Andrew’s question in #14 . . read it again.

• 19 Lleij Samuel Schwartz // Sep 24, 2007 at 7:43 pm

  Re: Republican>

  Also, it’s quite easy for people to save the clips and circulate them themselves. It’s virtually impossible to ban this kind of stuff.

  Maybe it’s this realization that is the real reason why Sittichai P. resigned so quickly.

• 20 Republican // Sep 24, 2007 at 9:30 pm

  On the subject of the propaganda war, Fa Dio Kan’s webboard appears to have just come under attack by irate royalist bloggers. They are clogging up the webboard with large numbers of obscene or abusive posts. Check out the chaos at: http://www.sameskybooks.org/webboard/webboard.php?Category=sameskybooks&page=1

• 21 Restorationist // Sep 25, 2007 at 4:42 am

  Vichai N. Sorry to belabour the point, but Andrew asked: “do you think Thaksin made the birthday video?”

  You replied: “Andrew (#9) asks whether I believe vindictive Thaksin was capable of stooping so low purvey malicious anti-monarchy videos? I believe Thaksin Shinawatra was capable of stooping much lower Andrew Walker.”

  So you didn’t answer the question. What you did was create your own question and answered that.

• 22 Sidh S. // Sep 25, 2007 at 6:51 pm

  Lleij Samuel Schwartz, I gather you must own an export business in Bangkok. If so, I extend my sympathies.

  Also thanks for identifying my schizophrenia! You must be more advanced in your practice (maybe an arahant?) - while my ‘vessel’ towards Buddhist nirvana is, as you put it, schizoprenic.

  “Just as it’s simplistic and convenient to blame the West/America/et al. for all of Thailand’s ills, as you do.” Do tell where I did that or please read my post more carefully (note that in #4 I also wrote “…We all are and we are all accountable for the problems of the world today”).

  And where have I wrote the monarchy is above criticism? I merely called for a more comprehensve, evenhanded and careful treatment that considers historical and cultural contexts. Besides, my position has been clear in a previous post - good karma has to be earned.

  With an attitude that puts down “Pious devaracha-worshiping animist” could be a possible reason you are “suffering” in Thailand mate. Move to Australia!

• 23 Lleij Samuel Schwartz // Sep 26, 2007 at 1:51 am

  Re: Sidh> Lleij Samuel Schwartz, I gather you must own an export business in Bangkok. If so, I extend my sympathies.

  Huh? I don’t know where you came up with that conclusion. I’m actually a linguist and language educator by trade, specializing in socio-pedagogy and intercultural pragmatics.

  You must be more advanced in your practice. I certainly don’t claim to be an arhant; (Besides, I’ve already pledged myself to the Bodhisvatta vows.) however, I could be more advanced in my practice than you, or I could not. I’d rather not discuss that subject in a public forum; if you’d like, I’d be more than happy to continue that discussion by e-mail.

  “Just as it’s simplistic and convenient to blame the West/America/et al. for all of Thailand’s ills, as you do.” Do tell where I did that or please read my post more carefully

  I read your posts most carefully, and where you say that is when you state: This is the context that I view Paul Handey’s book - the aim is neo-colonialism which is to ‘civilize’, ’sterilize’ the Thais. It want [sic] to convert the Mahidols into the Windsors, it want [sic] to convert the animist Thais from their magical mumbo-jumbo, the idolatory, the Jatukam Ramathep, Palad Khik and Buddhist amulet nonsense. It [Western "neo-colonialism"] wants to do that through belittlement - to make Thais a global laughing stock for worshipping a ‘false god’ (and by extension all false gods/spirits). It is clearly uncomfortable with Thai culture and identity and its long historical links to the monarchy. It can’t wait for Thai society to become ‘modern’ and ‘developed’ to become like ‘us’ in the West.

  However, I do duly note you comment in #4

  And where have I wrote the monarchy is above criticism?

  I never claimed you wrote that. I merely stated that criticism of the monarchy is problematic for someone of your religious creed. Noteing that, I think we agree on more that we disagree. I wholeheartedly agree with you when you write:There were so many figures and agents as influential and critical, for better and for worse, particularly at the pinnacle of their careers (AjarnPridi Bhanomyong, FM P.Pibulsongkram, Sarit and a very long line of generals up to the present GenSonthi; the many godfathers and tycoons whether in the city or provinces up to the present PMThaksin…etc…etc…). We have to clearly diffentiate here - HM the King is not running the country (he never did) - at any time, a large ‘alliance of interests’ is. However, unlike you, I think the cult of personality that formulates your religion supports the tyranny of the stratocracy rather than tempers it. (For it combines both the first and last refuge of scoundrels: patriotism and religion). Indeed, if the Chakris were seen as more like the Windors, then these “scoundrels” [i.e. Pridi, Pibulsongkram, Sarit, et al.] wouldn’t be able to use the karmaphala generated by the good deeds of His Majesty, the King, to obfuscate their own nefarious deeds.

  With metta,
  Lleij

  P.S. Thailand is not ” a global laughing stock for worshipping a ‘false god’” Thailand is a global laughing stock due to its unconscionable refusal to seriously combat the human trafficking and child sexual exploitation that occurs inside its borders.

• 24 Sidh S. // Sep 26, 2007 at 2:36 pm

  Thanks Lleij Samuel Schwartz for the clarification.
  However, personally I won’t count AjarnPridi as one of the “scoundrels” and, as far as I have learnt, his intentions for Thai society have been honorable. FMPibul, AjarnPridi’s collaborator and competition, did not wanted to merely ‘govern’ Siam/Thailand - but also to ‘rule’ it, so he was more in competition with the monarchy (at least at the height of his powers). It is GenSarit who many commentators credit with resusitating the monarchy - and here I disagree with you - which I see has mainly been a force for the good in a transforming Thai society. I am certain that one day the Thai monarchy will have a respectable, apolitical role not different from Japan’s royals - the building blocks of such a society are gradually falling into place (and as long as the ‘cool heads’ hold sway, we might just get there sooner rather than later).

  I generally agree with your comments on human trafficking and child sexual exploitation - but that is also such a highly complex issue in which much more qualified researchers/commentators have and are addressing. For instance, just being a relatively richer, politically stable country sharing thousands of kilometers of borders with some of the world’s poorest (and for quite a long time, unstable polities) is a critical factor. It is a big challenge on how to deal with unethical capitalism - and again, it is a global issue not limited to Thailand’s border. Thailand getting lots of global press on this is also partially due to the relatively free and open media (bar PMThaksin’s and the CNS political related actions). Maybe if the elites are not sweeping this under the carpet, it’s a good sign that they acknowledge the problems exists - but are, unfortunately, much too slow to redress it.

• 25 Republican // Sep 26, 2007 at 4:18 pm

  Further to the attack on Fa Dio Kan’s webboard (comment #20), the webboard has now been temporarily closed. See http://www.sameskybooks.org/infoshow.php?id=44 for the latest news on what is happening.

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